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There are various ways to hold a weapon. Most of the fencers are not aware or do not care how they take their weapons in their hands. This is acceptable for several reasons: a lot of sword-users use their weapons mostly with heavy hand protection gear and thus have no tolerance to change their grip. This springs from the sporting aspect coming with the understanding of historical martial arts today, may it be reenactment sport or sword-sport-fencing.
Looking at the historical martial art of one handed weapons we must see that it covers the situation of self defense as well. Thus it was learned, trained and fought with historical “street gear”. We see thin leather hand protection in the training situation. Later on, starting in the first quarter of the 16th century we see more and more hand-protection gear in combination with the training of weapons for the “Fechtschule” (see the gloves from the Weißkunig Plates in the picture below). Manuscripts for the teaching and learning of the Langes Messer start from the 14th century, but most of them are to dated in the second half of the 15th century. So we have a mixture between sport and self defense in mostly all the manuscripts. Looking at the hand positions in the pictures of the illuminated manuscripts we must keep in mind that these may differ if the same movement is used in sport.
Edges and Guards
Before we have close look at the hand positions we must proclaim that the Dussak is not the Long Knife but the Dussak is used to train the Long Knife in sport and war like situations. The Dussak in application is always combined with hand and arm protection, which is partly built in already. Thus the guards of this weapon differ. But as the Dussak in it’s sport version is a perfect sparring tool, it is used to train the heavy version of the Long Knife. Thus we have some similarities and differences, in the fencing style and in the hand positions.
In most guards of the Long Knife the orientation of the Short and the Long Edge is described well. This is shown in the illustration of the guards as up or down. The edge is never horizontally (although the Entrüsthau/Twerhau/Mittelhau hits horizontally – here we find some of the differences to the Dussak fencing).
The text passages to the guards suggest a vertical orientation of the blade (looking to the earth or the sky). But looking closer at the illustrations it can be seen that the back of the blade was drawn despite the profile view of the fencers. This is only possible if the blade is not perpendicular, but held in an inclined position. And if we read further in the texts of the teaching we find the description that one of the edges is pointing to the opponent or the opponent’s weapon. Knowing that stepping to a side is necessary most every movement we can assume that the edges of the Long Knife are in fact very rarely in a complete horizontal or vertical position.
Another essential factor of edge and hand position is the thing called “Fühlen”, Feeling. To determine possible short movements when the blade gets contact in the binding, the blade must be held at an angle. It is much more difficult to feel a 3-dimensional movement of the opponent’s blade if the own blade is positioned vertical or horizontal with the edges. The angle of the skew is different depending on the situation and depends on factors such as body size difference and direction of force and the fencing situation.
So dw den zorenhaw hawest so windt dein messer gegen dem seinen das dy lang schneid übersich stee
(cgm582 7r).
Like in modern fencing you do not leave it to chance, whether the short or long edge of the weapon creates contact to the opponent’s blade. For thrusting and cutting weapon the wrist rotation – hand rotation – is critical in the binding of the blades. Even if the slashing movement of a strike dictates the direction of the edge at the beginning of the strike, by winding, rotating, and overturning during the motion or in first contact the edge keeping in contact may differ.
Because a strike from your right side with the short edge is weak and easily to break, it is advisable to start with the long edge and during the motion or in first contact the wrist and elbow rotates the blade. The blade contact with the short edge is necessary for a great many of thrusts with the Long Knife. The lesson of one of the firs plays (“Stücke”) is: do not let the opponent know which will be the binding edge. Consider that the diameter of the cross is a prominent indicator for the edge position. As long as it is in the focus of attention of the opponent, it is wise to hide your true intention. The visual focus of a fencer is at the right shoulder of the opponent (another reason why left-handed fencers are irritating). If the rotation of the edges happen outside the focus and before it is possible to feel, it will catch the opponent by surprise.
Thumbs up or down?
The knife is held in different “thumb grips.” The thumb switch smoothly between the following four positions:
- Hammer Grip
The thumb is opposite the fingers, they form an “O” and are put firmly around the handle. - Flat Grip
The thumb is on the opposite side of the fingers resting on the the flat of the blade or handle. - Ridge Grip
The thumb is on the ridge (about 45 ° to the crossbar) of the handle. Most Long Knife handles are not round in the cross-section of the handle. So you have square with four “ridges”. The thumb is put on the opposite side of the fingers. - Saber Grip:
The thumb is vertically on the back of the handle in front of the crossbar (French fencing grip).
The thumb positions are fluid, but rarely we find the typical Hammer Grip. This can only found in the illustrations in the “strike out” movement at the begin of a strike that ends with the short edge or a binding that requires a rotation of the wrist.
The Edge Grip can be found in a great deal of strikes, and in thrusts the Saber Grip. Due to the high speed of the changing the thumb position from the Saber to the Flat over the Ridge, because the constant change of strikes and thrusts the thumb barely is taking an exact position. Almost always the thumb is not completely extended. This position allows for a “support” of the blade and protects the thumb to the correct angle of the blade very well by the crossbar. This has two consequences:
a) The knife is held primarily by the four fingers against the palm of the hand. The thumb supports the action only on “Contact”.
b) Blade contact is wanted always with the edge of the weapon. Only if the thumb is on the blade, the blade contact is searched on the flat of the opposite side of the thumb.
This “thumb-grips” correspond to the illustrations and are found in practice to be meaningful and helpful. Generally, we have to observe the exact position of hands and fingers in the illustrations with caution, as they often want to express elegance and may be tampered by the artists inability to present the correct posture. Overall these illustrations are nevertheless amazingly accurate and helpful in carrying out the techniques.
Interesting post. I am intrigued by your statement that ones visual focus will be on the opponents right shoulder. Is this observation, your opinion of best practice or do you have another source? I have heard of many suggestions of where the focus should be but not the shoulder.
Best
Jonathan
This is based on university studies. There are several regarding peripheral vision and the tracking of movement. One I was especially about the eye focus of fencers: beginners switch over the complete body but watch mostly the weapon, and hands and feet. Experienced fencers care mostly for the right shoulder and the weapon. I think it was done by that team.
http://cms.uni-kassel.de/sport/forschung/psychologie-und-gesellschaft/projekte.html
After reading it, I recognized why this should be the case. The weapon is attached to the shoulder by the arm. You do not care about the arm stretched or not. You always try to be out of the length of the stretched arm. So that you are out of reach of your opponent. So your personal safety depends how far the right shoulder of your opponent is away from you. You may say the same of the spine represented by the position of the head, but the spine could stay at the same place and by turning of the upper body the right shoulder will suddenly be nearer to you than you want it to. So the right shoulder is defining the measure.
But speaking about studies: there is another study, from the same team, that speaks a bit differently. It is about correct predicting an attack:
“In summary, eye movement data and performance in spatial occlusion experiments show that fencing experts draw important movement information from the movement of the opponent’s weapon or hand and trunk. The change in eye movement data highlights the weaknesses of spatial occlusion experiments and shows that when the spatial occlusion paradigm is used to assess information pickup, it is also desirable to record eye movements to be able to ascertain changes in gaze behavior.”
From “Visual perception in fencing: Do the eye movements of fencers represent their information pickup?”, Attention, Perception and Psychophysics, November 1, 2010; Hagemann, Norbert; Schorer, Jörg; Cañal-Bruland, Rouwen; Lotz, Simone; Strauss, Bernd.
So much for the state of science in that sport. I think that we have to wait some time until we have really reliable data from several studies.
I can see why the shoulder would be a good visual reference in foil and epee and perhaps even in modern sabre which bear little resemblance to a real fighting weapon. I would suggest that with more dynamic forms, such as those of the middle ages with more lateral footwork, the visual reference point/s would be different.
It seems the rather contradictory reports of the research supports the idea that different people use different strategies to achieve the same goal. Of course one could consider where the various people had been taught to look?
Indeed personally I focus the right shoulder since I listened to that study and it works out fine for me. But I can think of watching the trunk and the weapon hand as well. The trunk signals the center of gravity and the weapon hand talks to me about the rotation of the weapon by the crossbar.
I think we should try our best to teach the signals and perhaps in three or four years somebody will do some accurate studies with us sword wielders.
I personally use and teach the eyes. The goal is to “see” without looking. The eye is drawn to movement so the moving weapon or thing that is moving and closest draw the eye of beginers but in a surprising number of “advanced” people too.
A concern with looking at a place in the body that can actually give information about the opponents actions, is that one tries to use that information with the intellect, something that is encouraged by focused sight as opposed to peripheral vision. it can encourage an intellectual approach rather than letting the body find its own way.
Of course the eye will want to be involved in some way. So finding the way that helps best and inhibits least.
Yes, this is something jugglers do by peripheral vision. But even jugglers focus on one point – the highest peak of the ballistic trajectory or the crossing of the trajectories of several balls. This focus point and the peripheral vision is enough for the juggler to judge and predict the movement of the balls. Same with fencing, you need a focus point to let the peripheral vision do the job. It seems that the focus of the sight switches depending on measure, something that was not in the examination of those studies.
Maybe I misunderstood you, I see the intellectual approach as the only way. But it is a way that you can only walk, if the body and brain mastered the understanding of most of the common situations already. There is this special moment you feel calm and everything seems to happen in slow motion and it is so easy to win the fight. But as we still are busy with ourselves, our fears and our motions we cannot walk this way (Wil fechten haben und froelichs gemuete tragen). We get distracted by a sudden movements and fear the change of distance.
So I think that concentrating and teaching a special way of viewing may be the wrong way. In my class I try to reduce the number of signals depending on the measure. E.g. In greater distance it is the lower trunk that has to move for a change and not the upper body that may just feint a movement. There is the right shoulder moving toward you in one step distance in a lunge and in near distance it is the weapon hand itself. The watching of those parts in addition to the peripheral vision should be enough to predict the movement of the opponent – hopefully.
I meant that too many people rely on the concept of “understanding” before doing, especially in HEMA. People talk and write endlessly about the techniques etc, and then spend little time actually doing it, or the doing of it is approached poorly.
As you say the path must be walked to understand it properly, the doing leads to understanding. The teacher, the guide may have to understand things in a different way as they have the job of making the job of learning as easy for the student as possible.
I still have found that people will tend to want to look at something and then when they don’t have anything specific to look at they will try to look everywhere and then succeed in look nowhere or they will look to the biggest or closest movement. which also lead to rushed or panicked responses.
so I believe that people need to be given a place or places to look, places that encourage their ability to react appropriately. as they become more proficient they can find their own strategies.
best
I practice Kendo, and there is a term for the way we look at an opponent. Enzan no Metsuke “Looking at a far mountain.” In Kendo we specifically focus on the eyes but concentrate on using peripheral vision to see everything else going on.
The eyes themselves can lie, someone may intentionally look at a different target than they are intending to strike specifically to create subterfuge. It is far more important to pay attention to actual body movement, the eyes are merely a focal point.
It is a more central focus that traditional sport fencing, of course we also fight square shouldered with a two handed weapon, which would of course make things different. Kendo is also fought in a ring where you can sidestep or try to circle around your opponent, making seeing whole body movement more important. Traditional sport fencing is fought on a narrow strip where you are not allowed to do such things.
The method of gripping the sword sounds similar to ours, we grip the sword primarily with the last three fingers, the thumb and index finger are floating and lightly touch most of the time. The artwork of people gripping the messer looks VERY familiar to me.
Personally, I tend to see more similarity than difference between eastern and western styles of swordplay. There are only so many ways that the human body can move a sword effectively. The differences between them are in the fine details, not in general concept.